Home Page Articles Calendar Of Events ArtSpace
Book Reviews Favorite Links Guestbook Site Map


The Celestial Perspective Discussion Board Archives



PREVIOUS 25 MESSAGES RETURN TO BOARD NEXT 25 MESSAGES


Posted by bardic On Jul 17, 1999 At 12:31
Subject: generativity
Kristina, while I understand what you mean, I am far too curious about things I do not know to have the time to pass anything on quite yet:)

Top Of Page
Posted by bardic On Jul 17, 1999 At 12:33
Subject: Pope Joan
I checked into my Oxford Dictionary of Popes (which as the name implies is hardly hagiographic) and there is and is not a referent to John...seems he was actually an antipope (the early church is full of them) who after being overthrown retired to a monastary.

Top Of Page
Posted by Gloria On Jul 17, 1999 At 15:47
Subject: Pope Joan
I think that the common belief is that Pope Joan was stoned in the street where she gave birth. If version of the story includes a live birth, instead of a miscarriage, the baby was also stoned. I vaguely remember that there is/was a statue of her on that street, and is is called "Shunned" street or something like that. I planned to go web surfing to see what else I could find, but haven't had time. I would suspect that there is a bunch of info on the web.

Top Of Page
Posted by Kristina On Jul 18, 1999 At 00:11
Subject: Re: generativity/Hagiography
Woosh bardic you do have a way of veering me off topic. Your use of the word "hagriographical" (or whatever) got me to thinking...

For what it's worth, this word sent me into a space of speculation I had never visited before. Curious to me that the word derives from the Greek hagios meaning sacred. Now when anyone calls me an "old hag" I will look at them and smile in a different way.

Top Of Page
Posted by Kristina On Jul 18, 1999 At 13:22
Subject: Re: Pope Joan
Gloria, I look forward to reading about what you discover/uncover on the web. Mary Summer Rain cited a book called Pope Joan by Donna Woolfolk Cross.

In her brief mention of this, Summer Rain also mentioned the use of a chair with a hole in the bottom, called a sella sterorariawhich she said was "rumored to have been devised to ensure [after the Pope Joan/John fiasco]that the new papal nominee was indeed a man after being checked out by an appointed examiner."

Top Of Page
Posted by Al Krismer On Jul 18, 1999 At 20:06
Subject: Re:Genetic Engineering of plants
Last year I came across a website about a group that opposed what they called "terminator seeds". I did not know whether to accept it as truth or some propaganda. If the research was as extensive as they claimed, I had never read anything about it before accessing this particular website.If the terminator genes which are inserted so that no seed will be produced from hybrids is true, I cannot see any connection to how this would control the 'seed' market (in other words farmers could not save seed to use the next time). If they are hybrids the offspring would be so mixed that some offspring might be good and some lousy. Only homogeneous inbred varieties come true from seed.The biggest worry in some parts of the world is that farmers buy the more expensive hyb seed and do not bother to save the inbred seeds. Vital germplasm (genetic material) is lost for the sake of hybrid uniformity and superior plant yield.Maybe someone else might have more to say about the terminator genes.Al Krismer

Top Of Page
Posted by Kristina On Jul 20, 1999 At 12:02
Subject: The most recent Kennedy Tragedy
Does anyone have thoughts or feelings about this from a spiritual/karmic point of view? Typically, I am "in the moment" as the details are revealed, and wondering why in so many ways.

Top Of Page
Posted by Lou On Jul 21, 1999 At 18:07
Subject: Kennedy
At this time, we are hearing and reading many details. Some probably true and some NOT. So it is a sorry event regardless of whose fault.Lou

Top Of Page
Posted by Gloria On Jul 21, 1999 At 18:55
Subject: Terminator Genes
Apparently, Terminator genes are a joint effort of the USDA and Monsanto. Part of the fear is that the genes will escape to other plant varieties. The extreme view is that they'll be designed to escape and render all varieties of that plant sterile. A related example which is sometimes used is "sterile" loosestrife. Loosestrife is a lovely plant, and is not native to North America. I've read and heard on gardening shows that it is destroying wetland diversity, and is a poor host to native wildlife. (Can't remember if they meant in the water, on the land, or both.) It is considered a major invasive pest. Anyway, breeders came up with a "sterile" variety, so that gardeners could enjoy it while not adding to wild loosestrife problem. It is sterile, when breed to itself. No one tried to breed it with the wild variety, and it breeds well with the wild, continuing the invasion. Now this is faulty hybridization vs. genetic engineering, but shows that science and breeding is far from perfect.

Top Of Page
Posted by Gloria On Jul 21, 1999 At 19:15
Subject: Pope Joan
I haven't had time to go to the library, but have done a little web surfing. There is an excerpt from "Pope Joan" by Donna Woolfolk Cross at http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/popejoan.htm The book really sounds interesting. She states that all 9th century papal documentation is very scant. She mentions the sella stercoraria and that Pope Joan was mentioned in the official church guidebook for three hundred years. She also says that after a search of papal records, Pope John XX changed his title to John XXI in recognition of Joan's two year reign as John VIII. The book sounds interesting, I just might have to go to the library. There is also a web site about the novel http://www.popejoan.com/Oh, the first web site is at "Morgan's Observatory" http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/index.htm - well worth a look for those interested in alternative look at the world/universe.

Top Of Page
Posted by Gloria On Jul 21, 1999 At 19:23
Subject: Kennedy tragedy
Darn, I'll have to experiment more to get the links to work. I'm on several different web boards, and they all work differently. All this bad luck in a family does make you wonder about bad Karma, doesn't it? The media hasn't mentioned much about JFK's brother Joe who was killed on a bombing run on the way to a target which had already been destroyed. My dad and I were talking about bad karma, and he mentioned that the older Joe Kennedy had supposedly risen from being a bootlegger to Ambassador to England. Wow! That brings to mind a lot of opportunity for blackmail, etc. and accumulating bad karma. I really feel bad for Caroline.

Top Of Page
Posted by Al Krismer On Jul 21, 1999 At 21:14
Subject: Terminator Genes
The sterile loostrife or lythrum is sterile because it is a triploid. A triploid is a result of crossing two varieties or species of lythrum with diferent chromosome numbers. A variety with twice the number of chromosomes (a tetraploid) is crossed with a lythrum with a normal amount or diploid. The result will be offspring that are generally sterile and produce very few seeds. This is how we get seedless watermelons and why sometimes if you have fruit trees you need two different varieties for pollination.I have some of the sterile lythrum and occassionally they will produce fertile offspring. There is a sterile Rose of Sharon variety called Diana which is sterile and blooms all summer. Another advantage of triploids is that they produce blooms all summer since no fruit is produced.I guess the terminator genes could escape and cross-pollinated with inbred varieties.Lythrum has been declared a noxious weed because its upset the ecosystem of the marshlands.

Top Of Page
Posted by bardic On Jul 22, 1999 At 02:07
Subject: karma?
I both believe and disbelieve in karma (those who know me will not be shocked by that) of course what we do may affect us...but as for it affecting succeeding generations? sorry..plays havoc with my belief in free will.

Top Of Page
Posted by Kristina On Jul 22, 1999 At 12:45
Subject: Interesting POV re Kennedy Tragedy
The following (permission granted) is from Jose Stevens who was one of the founders of the Michael Teachings (see CP Favorite Links page). I found his perspective to be quite interesting, especially in the context of karma and preincarnational choices.

PIVOTAL RESOURCES INC.Jos‚ Stevens Ph.D.Lena StevensP.0. Box 272, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87504-0272505-982-8732 E-mail: pivotal@pivres.comJohn F. Kennedy Jr.by Jos‚ Stevens

By this time the whole world has heard the news that JFK Jr., his wife, and his sister-in-law lost their physical lives in a plane crash on their way to a family wedding. Once again the nation mourns and the news media has given non-stop coverage to the gradually unfolding drama of what happened out over the water. Naturally everyone is asking, "Why did they die in their prime with so much to offer the world? Why does the Kennedy family endure tragedies in such great numbers?" Let's attempt to explore these questions in order to shed more light on this apparent mystery and let's first answer the question, "Who was JFK Jr.?".

His father, president John Kennedy, assassinated in the early sixties was a seventh level, young king with a goal of acceptance, an idealist, mode of observation, intellectually centered, and a chief feature of martyrdom. His mother, Jacqueline who later married Aristotle Onassis, was also a late level, young king with a goal of growth, pragmatist, reserve mode, and a chief feature of arrogance. This of course is exceptionally rare, to have parents who are both kings, one a president and the other a first lady. Added to this rarefied, Camelot-type atmosphere of his childhood is the culture of the whole Kennedy clan with a family icon that says all boys must go into politics and strive for the presidency and all girls must marry well and promote social causes. Of late, this icon has expanded to include that the women can enter into politics as well. The family is heavily invested with young soul values of wealth and competitiveness (football and politics); however it also has a mature soul overlay of looking out for the well-being of the underprivileged. This comes from the fact that they have immigrant roots and struggled in their past. Some prominent members of the family are, and have been mature souls. For example, John Kennedy Jr.'s warrior uncle, Senator Robert Kennedy, who was also gunned down during his bid for president, was an early level, mature soul. Ted Kennedy is a mature scholar with too much karma in the way of becoming president himself.

Large, extended families of the Kennedy kind place the strongest imprinting on their offspring, largely because there are many members that make peer pressure strong and because the family name becomes something to uphold and bring honor to. In addition, whenever a king is present in a family, the imprinting on fellow members and on offspring is doubly strong.

So John Kennedy Jr. was the child and heir apparent of a prominent, nationally-known family who exerted their own pressure on him, but he was influenced heavily by national public pressure as well. JFK. Jr. was a late level. mature artisan with a goal of acceptance, an idealist, intellectually-centered with a chief-feature of stubbornness. Artisans are the least programmable of all the roles, so young John was able to escape much of the family programming laid on him but he couldn't escape all of it. As a college student, John, like many artisans wanted to be an actor. He hung out with actors, dated them, and in a way considered himself to be one of them, but his mother Jacqueline nixed the notion because according to her it would be beneath a Kennedy to go into acting. John, being in acceptance, didn't want to create waves, so he looked for something else to do. Law was the family program but not exactly John's thing, so he struggled to pass the bar, failing it once before passing. John did not make a career out of law for obvious reasons. He was recognized by the press as a handsome hunk with model looks who was exceptionally photogenic, all typical of a gifted artisan man. Journalism was acceptable to the family so he created a magazine instead and had some fun doing it. In Caroline, he found an acceptable fellow artisan to marry who had reserve mode like his mother Jackie. She also happened to be his task companion. The public and the media panted with relish at their union. Certainly they were going to do something big.

Now consider John's predicament. He had no desire to enter politics like his famous father and relatives. However, he had arrived at a strong crossroads in his life. He was working on his fourth internal monad and had arrived at age thirty-eight, time to make his move if he was ever going to do it. All the world expected John Jr. to finally declare his candidacy for senate and eventually for president. There was strong pressure from the press and from various politicians who suggested this to him. He could go that route, a path this late level, mature soul had no stomach for, considering what happened to his father and uncle and considering that artisans hardly ever excel in politics; or he could ignore the pressure and press on with journalism and in a way disappoint everyone, an extremely painful thing for someone with a goal of acceptance.

What would you do? On an essence level he decided to put an end to the whole dynasty thing before it could be carried into the next century. He felt it was his job to stop the young soul value system in his family and in the country by finishing off their most eligible candidate. In short, he sacrificed himself for his deepest values. He considered it to be much more effective to die in a dramatic way than simply thwarting the pressure on him for the rest of his life or worse, knuckling under to it.

The fact that Princess Diana's death made such a big statement was not lost on John. He had a flair for the dramatic. He knew the world had lost a princess, a kindhearted, good woman who was a mature soul. Through her death she garnered tremendous publicity for mature soul values. She condemned the young soul, shallow and ruthless paparazzi, drew attention to AIDS, poverty, and a host of other social problems. With his own death he could be the counterbalance. He was the identified world renowned prince, close in age to Diana. How powerful it would be if the world lost both their princess and their prince in such short succession, both calling attention to mature soul values.

Remember we are speaking here of essence-directed decisions and not those of John's personality. This was no suicide. John at the personality level had every intention of arriving safely and attending the family wedding he was off to. And what of his wife Caroline and sister-in-law Lauren? Why did they have to die with him? Both of them died for their own personal reasons directed by essence. Caroline did not want to be another Jackie Onassis, a widow hounded by the press for the rest of her life. Who can blame her? She figured that she could help him to make an even stronger final statement by going out with him and she indeed succeeded in this. After all, recall that she was John's task companion.

John's message was this: The whole Kennedy-president-nobility thing is finished. Grow up society. Stop trying to establish a monarchy. That is not the way for the next century. The young soul way is dead. Monarchies are a thing of the past. Be a regular good person that doesn't put on airs. Did he succeed? Time will tell.

Top Of Page
Posted by Kristina On Jul 22, 1999 At 22:31
Subject: Genetically altered foods
Pursuant to our discussion here on CP, for the last two nights the CBS Nightly News, anchored by Dan Rather at 6:30 PM EDT, has featured this subject during its "Eye on America" segment. Reporter Wyatt Andrews did a pretty decent job of summarizing the quandry we all face with this new development.

The basic theme throughout this presentation was that very few Americans are aware that many of the foods they eat, or are fed to the animals they eat, have been altered in this way. The resounding question was: why is this not on the labels of our foods if it has been going on for over 4 years? Answer: apparently the biotech industry and none other than the FDA felt that it was a non-issue, that food was food.

However, the CBS team discovered that not all of the FDA people were pleased by the "no-label" majority vote, and some even expressed a concern that we humans have now become guinea pigs. In addition to Monsanto, DuPont is apparently involved in this grand experiment. Spokespeople from these companies denied that there was any danger. Opponents to such decrees agreed with Brian S. who posted here earlier expressing concern about the lack of time before marketing these products. The foods most likely to be currently affected are cereal, snack food and meat of all kinds.

The British Medical Association is extremely alarmed, but the folks in Germany are happily joining this bandwagon, having recently altered a strain of grapes for the production of wine.

There are a growing number of Americans who are speaking out in a way that feels fair to me. Their point is "Fine, go ahead and do this, but just tell us. Inform us by putting labels on such altered foods." They are saying to the companies, "If this scientific development is so safe and wonderful for the future, why isn't it on the label?" Sounds like a good question to me, one that I too would like answered.

Top Of Page
Posted by Kristina On Jul 22, 1999 At 23:14
Subject: Re: Pope Joan and fascinating website
Earlier, Gloria mentioned a website that I decided to visit tonight. Pretty fascinating gang. I haven't yet had the time to explore it fully but you might want to do so: Morgana'sObservatory--Ancient Prophesies, Universal Myths. I had to come back here and visit the discussion area to find out where the excerpt from the book about Pope Joan was, and here it is for efficient clicking: Book about Pope Joan. Hope I did this correctly. If not, our cyber wizard (aka Larry Ward) will certainly set me straight.

Top Of Page
Posted by jettrink On Jul 23, 1999 At 15:42
Subject: Kennedy
I don't know why people are labeling these things as curses. It was stupid to fly at night with little or no training, you can see this all build up in links just like they were talking about, first the delay of Lauren getting there, this was supposed to be a day flight, second going anyway, and the demand of Carolyn to let her sister off at Martha's Vinyard, I still don't know why, but one landing at night would have been hard enough. There was also the hazy weather, everything here is a warning sign which everyone on board disregarded. No way would I have gotten on that plane. And finally with conditions so bad when he got there, why not a call for help? Then the fact that there were no life jackets, or life boats on the plane and no instructor. I get the impression that someone even on the ground could have kept the plane steady enough to even land on the water before going into a tailspin.

Top Of Page
Posted by jettrink On Jul 23, 1999 At 15:50
Subject: Monarchy
I do believe in monarchy, I am still no over the death of Princess Diana. I felt she did so much good for the world. I also had a premonition of her death and that of JFKJR. I do not like to know these things, it must be awful for people who are really physic. Most of mine have been about pets, rarely about people. The other one was about RFK.

Top Of Page
Posted by Al Krismer On Jul 23, 1999 At 20:06
Subject: Interesting POV re Kennedy Tragedy
Is Stevens et al advancing the theory that JFK Jr. subconciously wanted to commit suicide? I think it was just a unfortunate chain of events; no curse or whatever explanation people want to give for the tragedy.. I think JFK Jr. loved life too much to entertain thoughts of sacrificing himself to put an end to the Kennedy aura.. I don't think of the Kennedys as being cursed I know several families that have had to deal with as many tragedies in their lifetimes.

Top Of Page
Posted by Kristina On Jul 23, 1999 At 23:56
Subject: Interesting POV/Kennedy tragedy
Al,

Jose Stevens specifically said that he was not implying suicide. Rather, his perspective is from what he calls Essence and "soul intention", from a place of feeling that each of our incarnations have a particular purpose even though our personalities might not be consciously aware.

Personally, what Stevens wrote helped me view this event from a broader viewpoint, especially in speaking with several of my children who are "over-dosed", if you will, with media sensationalism that of late seems to drum tragedies of this nature into the ground, to the extent that all of us get numb after a while.

Another thing that I (and they) have noticed is the lack of representation of the people who think that focussing on this event has misdirected the attention of the masses from matters that are affecting our world very critically these days. Many people are angry about this coverage, to say nothing about paying for the funeral, but are afraid to speak out. I don't happen to be one of the angry ones. In situations like this I have my own feelings and then pay close attention to the feelings of others.

Hmm..what is that old Chinese curse, speaking of "curses"?

"May you live in interesting times," I think it is. But then, the Chinese philosophers have never been known for direct and concrete dictates, but those that are enigmatic, as is life when all is said and done.

Top Of Page
Posted by Kristina On Jul 24, 1999 At 23:53
Subject: Interesting quote
I heard this one the other day:

"Most people would prefer that things look right, not be right.

Top Of Page
Posted by bardic On Jul 25, 1999 At 09:00
Subject: Interesting Times
Actually the quote about interesting times is both fairly direct ...and recent. It is attributed to one of the Chinese rulers on their first contact with Americans..and meant that the Americans should keep engaged by the outside world so that they would not return. But we have made something different of it...which we often do to sayings:)

Top Of Page
Posted by Larry On Jul 25, 1999 At 16:06
Subject: Updates

The Calendar Of Events has been updated to include some additional local Cincinnati events.

A new About The Author page has been added. This is a short biography of the author of the Featured Article Of the Month page. Larry

Top Of Page
Posted by inforomi On Jul 26, 1999 At 16:46
Subject: Saints being stoned
This is not about Pope Joan but is a memory triggered by the mention of Joan being stoned in the street. When our daughter was studying in CCD classes (afte school religion classes for Catholic students attending public schools) she was assigned a report on St. Stephen. She read the account in the encyclopeida and then wrote her report, paraphrasing so as not to plagiarize. She wrote that he died of an overdose of drugs. When questioned, she said, well, the encyclopedia said he was stoned! This was in about 1979 - she was very into Woodstock memorabilia at the time.

Top Of Page
Posted by Kristina On Jul 26, 1999 At 22:55
Subject: Getting, Being Stoned/Woodstock
Inforomi, what a great tale! One to be passed down by generations I am sure. In the meantime, do any news "freaks" around here have the scoop on what happened at the Woodstock reunion today? Troublesome...

Top Of Page
PREVIOUS 25 MESSAGES RETURN TO BOARD NEXT 25 MESSAGES